IPR Daily專訪｜INTA首席政策官Heather Steinmeyer 談人工智能

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“近日，國(guó)際商標(biāo)協(xié)會(huì)(INTA)首席政策官Heather Steinmeyer做客IPR Daily，圍繞人工智能等議題展開交流?！?br/>

來源：IPRdaily中文網(wǎng)（iprdaily.cn）

（INTA首席政策官Heather Steinmeyer專訪視頻）

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附：采訪文字（中英文版）

下午好，Heather Steinmeyer。我很榮幸這次能與您交談，歡迎您再次回到中國(guó)。您能簡(jiǎn)單介紹一下自己以及在INTA的職責(zé)嗎？

Good afternoon, Ms. Heather Steinmeyer. It's a pleasure to be here. It's my pleasure speaking with you this time and welcome you back to China again. Could you please briefly introduce yourself and your role at INTA?

很高興來到中國(guó)。我叫Heather Steinmeyer，在國(guó)際商標(biāo)協(xié)會(huì)（INTA）擔(dān)任首席政策官。首席政策官的職能是幫助建立和推動(dòng)組織的政策議程和政策倡導(dǎo)工作。我們時(shí)刻關(guān)注會(huì)員的關(guān)切，并確定INTA應(yīng)該如何圍繞這些議題采取行動(dòng)。我們與各級(jí)政府部門、知識(shí)產(chǎn)權(quán)局、法院以及其他利益攸關(guān)方積極溝通，積極為會(huì)員發(fā)聲。

Certainly. My name is Heather Steinmeier. I'm the Chief Policy Officer at the International Trademark Association or INTA. The role of the Chief Policy Officer is to help establish and promote the policy agenda and the advocacy work of the organization. That means that we are looking at the different types of issues and positions that matter to our members and determining how INTA should act with respect to those issues. Then we go out with that information and engage with stakeholders at all levels governments, intellectual property offices, courts, and many others to help express those viewpoints on behalf of INTA's membership。

您在INTA的工作職責(zé)涉及領(lǐng)導(dǎo)全球政策和倡導(dǎo)工作。您能否分享一下在您的任期內(nèi)取得的一些成就？

Your role at INTA involves leading global policy and advocacy efforts. Could you share some of the accomplishments you have achieved during your tenure？

我很樂意分享。在2023年3月?lián)蜪NTA首席政策官之前，我作為會(huì)員和志愿者為INTA服務(wù)多年，包括在2010年擔(dān)任INTA主席。我和INTA保持著長(zhǎng)期的聯(lián)系。自2023年3月起，我正式擔(dān)任INTA首席政策官，圍繞政策建議，我們擬定了一系列高質(zhì)量的政策建議，并通過董事會(huì)批準(zhǔn)這些政策；自從我就任以來，INTA通過了8項(xiàng)董事會(huì)決議，我們還為各國(guó)法院提供專業(yè)支持，幫助推動(dòng)法律的制定，以反映INTA的政策和立場(chǎng)。我們已經(jīng)提交了超過15份法庭之友或建議書。此外，我們?yōu)楦鲊?guó)立法提供專業(yè)支持和建議，向不同國(guó)家的立法機(jī)構(gòu)和知識(shí)產(chǎn)權(quán)局提交了75份建議書，以表達(dá)我們對(duì)特定議題的看法。

Sure, I'd be happy to. I've been with the Association as a member of the staff since March of 2023. Before that, I was a member and a volunteer for many years before that, including serving as its president in 2010. So I have a long history with INTA overall, but have only been the Chief Policy Officer since March of 2023. Since that time, in terms of the policy and advocacy work, we have established a number of high-level policies, and we do that by getting the approval of our Board of Directors on what those positions should be. And we've passed roughly 8 policy positions in the form of board resolutions during that time since I've arrived. We also intervene with courts to help the law that is made through the judiciary evolve in ways that are consistent with INTA's policy positions. And in that regard, we've filed more than 15 amicus briefs or court interventions since I arrived. We also intervene regularly through written submissions and comments as legislation is developing around the world. And in that respect, we have filed more than 75 sets of comments with different legislatures, intellectual property offices, and to express INTA's views on particular subjects.

我分享幾個(gè)例子。對(duì)于INTA及其會(huì)員來說，關(guān)注的一個(gè)重要領(lǐng)域就是應(yīng)對(duì)假冒以及如何在全球范圍內(nèi)打擊假冒。例如，互聯(lián)網(wǎng)平臺(tái)的假冒問題需要我們共同努力，但其中的一項(xiàng)挑戰(zhàn)是：在打擊假冒的過程中，一些利益相關(guān)方的角色和責(zé)任并不十分明確。權(quán)利人需要做哪些工作來幫助平臺(tái)識(shí)別并刪除假冒商品？互聯(lián)網(wǎng)平臺(tái)又需要采取哪些行動(dòng)以遏制假冒的進(jìn)一步升級(jí)？我之前提到的8項(xiàng)董事會(huì)決議之一就與互聯(lián)網(wǎng)平臺(tái)的角色和責(zé)任相關(guān)。該決議關(guān)注互聯(lián)網(wǎng)平臺(tái)應(yīng)當(dāng)采取哪些最佳實(shí)踐和最低標(biāo)準(zhǔn)，從而有效應(yīng)對(duì)平臺(tái)的假冒問題；如果互聯(lián)網(wǎng)平臺(tái)落實(shí)該決議中的內(nèi)容，將會(huì)有哪些收獲？換句話講，如果互聯(lián)網(wǎng)平臺(tái)正在落實(shí)這些實(shí)踐，那么它們就不應(yīng)該因平臺(tái)上售假而承擔(dān)法律責(zé)任。這項(xiàng)董事會(huì)決議就是一個(gè)很好的范例。

Here are a couple of examples. So one of the areas that is always of paramount importance to INTA and its membership is anti-counterfeiting and the global fight against counterfeits. One of the areas in which this continues to be very active and something that requires a concerted effort is counterfeiting in online marketplaces. One of the challenges that we saw in combating counterfeiting online is that the roles and responsibilities of the stakeholders that are part of combating counterfeiting are not always clear. What do the rights owners need to do to help the marketplaces recognize and remove counterfeits from their marketplaces? And what do the marketplaces need to do to monitor and help try to address counterfeits even before they become bigger problems? In that regard, one of the Board Resolutions of those 8 that I described was focused on the role and responsibility of online marketplaces. And that was specifically intended to address what are the best practices and what are the minimum standards that marketplaces need to employ in their actions to keep counterfeits off their marketplaces. In particular, what are the benefits to the marketplaces if they do comply with that? In other words, we believe that under those circumstances, if a marketplace is exercising those best practices, they should not have to be legally liable for the sale of those counterfeits on their marketplaces. So that is one example of a board resolution that we have passed in the last few months.

另一個(gè)分享案例是，我們的會(huì)員非常關(guān)注互聯(lián)網(wǎng)域名對(duì)品牌的濫用。但如何定義域名濫用是一項(xiàng)挑戰(zhàn)，因?yàn)樵摱x并不一致。不同的機(jī)構(gòu)，包括互聯(lián)網(wǎng)治理機(jī)構(gòu)之一的ICANN，它們的定義具有局限性，僅關(guān)注網(wǎng)絡(luò)釣魚、惡意軟件和其他形式的網(wǎng)絡(luò)欺詐等問題，并且僅在這種情況下涉及對(duì)品牌的濫用。一個(gè)更好的定義應(yīng)該具備更廣闊的視角，即域名濫用應(yīng)包括任何在域名或其他域名標(biāo)識(shí)中使用品牌、未經(jīng)授權(quán)使用品牌的行為，只要這種行為可能導(dǎo)致欺騙、惡意或非法活動(dòng)。當(dāng)我們以董事會(huì)決議的形式確立了這些議題的政策立場(chǎng)，INTA同事和委員會(huì)就能與政府和其他決策者溝通，努力推動(dòng)其采納該定義，從而更有效地保護(hù)品牌。上述分享說明了我們通過一系列董事會(huì)決議、法庭之友以及政策建議書以明確INTA的立場(chǎng)。

Another example is that abuse of brands in Internet domain names is another type of topic that is always of interest to our members. One of the things that has been challenging in acting in that space is that there is not a consistent definition of what constitutes domain abuse. Different organizations, including ICANN, one of the Internet governance organizations, have definitions that in our view are too narrowly focused on things like phishing and malware and other forms of online fraud, and only address brand misuse in that context. We believe that a better definition is a broader definition that essentially states that domain abuse should constitute any use of a brand, unauthorized use of a brand, in a domain name or another domain identifier that can lead to deceptive, malicious, or illegal activity. Once we have these types of policy positions established in the form of a Board Resolution, that enables INTA, through its staff and its committees, to engage with governments and other leaders to seek to try to encourage the adoption of that definition, which then allows for perhaps more effective enforcement and protection of brands in connection with domain name abuse. So that's just to give a couple of examples of the types of policy positions that we have established in that set of resolutions and amicus briefs and comments that we've made.

感謝您的分享。人工智能已經(jīng)成為時(shí)代趨勢(shì)，甚至被稱為第四次工業(yè)革命的標(biāo)志。您認(rèn)為人工智能將給商標(biāo)領(lǐng)域和知識(shí)產(chǎn)權(quán)法律體系帶來哪些關(guān)鍵變化，以及是否會(huì)引發(fā)潛在風(fēng)險(xiǎn)？

Thank you for your answer. Artificial intelligence has become a trend of the times, even being called the Hallmark of the Fourth Industrial Revolution. What key changes do you think AI will bring to the field of trademarks and the intellectual property legal framework, and will potential risks matter rise?

的確會(huì)帶來很多變化。INTA委員會(huì)正在研究人工智能(AI)引發(fā)的諸多變化，諸如現(xiàn)行知識(shí)產(chǎn)權(quán)法律體系是否足以應(yīng)對(duì)AI在信息、內(nèi)容和創(chuàng)意生成方式上的發(fā)展，以及AI對(duì)內(nèi)容生成的貢獻(xiàn)等。

從INTA的角度來看，我們不僅關(guān)注這些具體問題，而且在協(xié)調(diào)推動(dòng)這些問題的解決。鑒于AI引發(fā)了諸多問題，我們希望能夠保持政策立場(chǎng)的一致性，并從全局的角度來應(yīng)對(duì)AI在法律層面帶來的重大挑戰(zhàn)。為此，我們組建了一個(gè)人工智能咨詢委員會(huì)，負(fù)責(zé)統(tǒng)籌至少15個(gè)工作組，這些工作組推進(jìn)不同的工作，而委員會(huì)將確保這些工作組的協(xié)調(diào)與合作，從而使整個(gè)機(jī)構(gòu)的工作成果保持一致。我們也關(guān)注如何支持會(huì)員更好地使用AI，從而推動(dòng)知識(shí)產(chǎn)權(quán)行業(yè)的進(jìn)步和工作方式的優(yōu)化。與此同時(shí)，我們致力于幫助會(huì)員做好準(zhǔn)備，以應(yīng)對(duì)AI帶來的挑戰(zhàn)和風(fēng)險(xiǎn)。為此，我們正在積極開發(fā)各種項(xiàng)目、研究報(bào)告以及其他路徑，幫助會(huì)員了解AI對(duì)客戶建議的影響；或者幫助企業(yè)或商業(yè)機(jī)構(gòu)預(yù)見AI可能引發(fā)的各種問題。

There is not just one, there are many. INTA has a number of committees that are looking into the types of questions that AI is raising with respect to whether current intellectual property law frameworks are adequate to address the developments that AI is introducing into the way that both individuals create information and content and ideas, and also the way that AI is contributing to the development of content now. One of the things that's very important from INTA's perspective is not only to be looking at the specific issues, and I'm happy to talk more about those issues, but also that we do so in a coordinated way. Because there are so many issues, we want to make sure that our policy positions are consistent and reflect a holistic approach with respect to the overarching challenges that AI raises from a legal perspective. And from that point of view, we have created an AI Advisory Council, which is a group that is overseeing the work of more than 15 different work streams looking at discrete issues to help make sure that those groups are coordinated and the results that we produce are consistent across the organization. We're also very much focused on how we can help our members both use AI and for the betterment, if you will, of the IP profession and how we all operate, but also how they can be prepared to respond to the challenges and the risks that AI is creating. So, from that point of view, we are developing programming and publications and other mechanisms to help our members understand how AI is likely to affect the advice that they need to give to their clients or if they are corporations and businesses, how those businesses need to anticipate the issues that AI is going to raise.

我再分享一個(gè)例子，今年三月，我們?cè)诩~約舉辦了為期兩天的“人工智能商業(yè)大會(huì)”，這場(chǎng)會(huì)議聚焦AI如何影響法律行業(yè)，不僅包括AI引發(fā)的法律問題，還包括法律行業(yè)如何將AI作為一種工具。

To give one specific example there, in March of this year, INTA held a two-day Business of AI conference in New York, which was focused entirely on the way in which AI is affecting the legal profession, not only in terms of the legal issues it's raising, but how it is being used by the legal profession as a tool to do jobs.

由此可見，我們從多個(gè)維度來探討AI，既包括其帶來的法律風(fēng)險(xiǎn)，也包括AI在法律實(shí)務(wù)中的應(yīng)用。

So there are multiple dimensions to how we are approaching AI, both in terms of the legal risk and the practical applications of AI to the business of law.

感謝您的分享。像ChatGPT這樣產(chǎn)品的出現(xiàn)令許多法律專業(yè)人士擔(dān)心未來AI將會(huì)取代他們的工作。一份2023年的報(bào)告估計(jì)，目前法律領(lǐng)域中有44%的工作可以實(shí)現(xiàn)自動(dòng)化。您對(duì)此有什么看法？

Thank you for your answer. The advent of products like ChatGPT has made many legal professionals worry that AI will replace their jobs in the future. A 2023 Report estimated that currently 44% of the tasks in the legal field can be automated. What is your opinion on this？

AI有可能出色甚至更好地完成某些常規(guī)性任務(wù)。我們也相信AI擁有巨大的潛力來提升現(xiàn)有法律專業(yè)人員的工作效率。AI是一種非常有價(jià)值的工具。如今的法律專業(yè)人員面臨著海量的信息，這些信息可能會(huì)引導(dǎo)并影響他們向客戶提供的建議，無論這些客戶是企業(yè)內(nèi)部員工，還是向企業(yè)提供咨詢的律師事務(wù)所。判例法、法律進(jìn)展、地緣政治變化以及經(jīng)濟(jì)和商業(yè)變化，這些因素都應(yīng)納入到律師的考慮范疇。AI能有效地幫助律師利用更多信息，從而更好地為客戶提供建議。因此，我們認(rèn)為AI可以成為一個(gè)非常強(qiáng)大的工具，幫助專業(yè)人士取得成功，并在更精深的層面上開展工作。對(duì)于法律行業(yè)的初級(jí)職位而言，重要的一點(diǎn)是這些律師和其他法律專業(yè)人員需要擁抱AI。今年人工智能商業(yè)大會(huì)有一個(gè)有趣的說法，法律專業(yè)人士不必過于擔(dān)心AI取代他們的工作，而更應(yīng)該擔(dān)心被懂得運(yùn)用AI的律師取代。

We agree that there are certain routine tasks that AI is likely able to perform as well or better perhaps. However, we also believe strongly that there is a great deal of potential for AI to enhance the jobs of current legal professionals. AI is a valuable decision support tool. Legal professionals these days are faced with an enormous amount of information that can guide and impact on the advice that they are giving to their clients, whether those clients are within a business or it's, for example, a law firm advising a business. There is case law. There is legislative change. There is geopolitical change. There is economic and business change. All of these things are factors in the advice that lawyers give. AI can be a very effective way to help lawyers harness more information and better advise their clients. And so from that point of view, we think that AI can be a very powerful tool to help professionals succeed and operate at an even more sophisticated level. With respect to perhaps more junior jobs in the legal profession, it's important that those attorneys and other legal professionals also embrace AI. There was an interesting quote that came out of the AI for Business conference that I mentioned, which is that legal professionals need to worry less about AI replacing their jobs and more about their jobs being replaced by another lawyer who understands how to use AI.

AI可以增強(qiáng)初級(jí)專業(yè)人員在法律行業(yè)中發(fā)揮的作用。如果律師和專業(yè)人士能夠熟練運(yùn)用AI，編寫有效的提示語以獲得最佳、最可靠的結(jié)果，能理解AI的使用方法、識(shí)別結(jié)果的質(zhì)量并進(jìn)行有效評(píng)估，那么他們更有可能取得成功。法律行業(yè)最終將在AI的支持下蓬勃發(fā)展。因此，我們正通過“人工智能商業(yè)大會(huì)”等平臺(tái)和專業(yè)資源，幫助會(huì)員理解并適應(yīng)這些變革。

The types of roles that more junior professionals have perhaps played in the legal profession can also be enhanced by the use of AI. It will be the attorneys and the other professionals who can draft a good prompt for AI to get the best and most reliable results and understand what it takes to use AI and recognize the quality of the results and be able to assess that that are likely to succeed in our view. We think that at the end of the day, the profession should thrive with the support of AI. From that point of view, we are providing resources to our members like the Business of AI conference to help them understand what these changes will mean and adapt to that.

感謝您的分享。歐盟的《人工智能法案》已經(jīng)正式生效。您對(duì)這個(gè)法案有什么看法？

Thank you for your opinion. The EU's Artificial Intelligence Act has officially come into effect. What is your view on this Act?

該法案在近期生效，我們尚未觀察到足夠的實(shí)施情況，以真正評(píng)估其全面效力。但我們認(rèn)為該法案中的一些原則非常有意義。這一法案根據(jù)AI工具的應(yīng)用情況設(shè)定不同的風(fēng)險(xiǎn)等級(jí)，并要求對(duì)較高風(fēng)險(xiǎn)等級(jí)或AI功能的應(yīng)用實(shí)施更嚴(yán)格的監(jiān)管和治理。一些可能屬于較高風(fēng)險(xiǎn)的應(yīng)用，例如涉及大量個(gè)人信息和數(shù)據(jù)的醫(yī)療保健應(yīng)用、防御類應(yīng)用以及信息安全類應(yīng)用等。我們認(rèn)為，該法案采取分層風(fēng)險(xiǎn)方法，并根據(jù)風(fēng)險(xiǎn)等級(jí)設(shè)定相應(yīng)的要求，是非常合理的。

It has recently come into effect, and we have not yet seen enough implementation under the Act to really be able to assess its full effectiveness. So I would say that right now we are in a bit of a Wait and See Mode with respect to the Act itself. However, there are some principles that are in the Act that we think make a lot of sense. In particular, the Act has created various risk levels depending on the application of the AI tool and seeks to apply greater controls and governance and oversight with respect to the higher risk levels or applications of AI capabilities. Some examples of things that might be higher risk would be healthcare applications where there's a great deal of personal and medical data involved, defense applications, information security. And the approach, in the act of stratifying the risk and putting in place appropriate requirements depending on the level of risk, we think makes a lot of sense.

謝謝您的分享。國(guó)際商標(biāo)協(xié)會(huì)（INTA）如何幫助其會(huì)員應(yīng)對(duì)人工智能帶來的挑戰(zhàn)，以及INTA在這一新興領(lǐng)域有哪些實(shí)踐和研究可以分享？

Thank you for your answer. How does INTA help its members cope with the challenges brought by artificial intelligence and what practices and research can INTA share regarding this emerging field?

剛才提到了AI咨詢委員會(huì)統(tǒng)籌協(xié)調(diào)相關(guān)政策的制定，以及INTA主辦的“人工智能商業(yè)大會(huì)”。此外，我們還通過政策對(duì)話等形式，定期與立法機(jī)構(gòu)和知識(shí)產(chǎn)權(quán)局等進(jìn)行交流，參與其組織的相關(guān)會(huì)議，幫助這些利益攸關(guān)方加深對(duì)AI應(yīng)用的理解。

我們代表會(huì)員推動(dòng)這些工作，以反映INTA在AI議題的思考和實(shí)踐，同時(shí)我們也在此基礎(chǔ)上制定我們的政策立場(chǎng)。此外，我們還會(huì)定期發(fā)布相關(guān)文章和資訊，旨在幫助我們的會(huì)員理解AI，并引導(dǎo)他們思考如何在業(yè)務(wù)中應(yīng)用AI。

So I've mentioned a couple of the ways in which we are responding in terms of coordinating our policy development efforts through the AI Advisory Council. I've mentioned the Business of AI Conference. We're also engaging very regularly with stakeholders such as legislators and intellectual property offices in the form of policy dialogues and responding to their listening sessions as they attempt to understand how they should be approaching AI. We do this on behalf of our members to help reflect INTA's approach and thinking on this as we simultaneously develop our policy positions. In addition to that, we are regularly publishing articles and information intended to help our members understand the issues and get them thinking about perhaps how those issues apply in their businesses.

當(dāng)我們從宏觀的視角審視技術(shù)時(shí)，AI是當(dāng)前技術(shù)領(lǐng)域的一個(gè)熱門話題，它正在影響知識(shí)產(chǎn)權(quán)所有者和法律。但AI不是唯一的話題。過去有很多相關(guān)話題，未來也還會(huì)有。INTA的角色之一就是展望未來。在這方面，我們定期發(fā)布智庫(kù)報(bào)告，這些研究成果預(yù)測(cè)各種先進(jìn)技術(shù)的影響，幫助會(huì)員提前做好準(zhǔn)備。我們預(yù)計(jì)會(huì)在AI領(lǐng)域看到更多的成果。此外，我們正在編撰AI主題的白皮書、推進(jìn)相關(guān)工作，這些舉措將幫助會(huì)員取得更大的成就。

When we look at technology more broadly, AI is a current hot topic in technology advancements that are affecting intellectual property owners and law. But it's certainly not the only one. There have been many topics in the past and there will be topics going forward. One of the roles that INTA plays is to look into the future. And in that respect, we have regularly published what we think of as Think Tank reports, which are intended to anticipate the impact of technology advancements of various types and provide advanced guidance to our members on how best to address that. So I would expect to see more work like that coming out in the area of AI. And I know that we have a number of White Papers and works at the moment on various topics dealing with AI that will contribute to that body of work for our members.

感謝您的精彩分享。

Thank you for your answer.

謝謝。

Thank you.

溫馨提示：上述中文譯文僅供參考，旨在幫助讀者理解采訪內(nèi)容。INTA官方立場(chǎng)和政策請(qǐng)參閱其官方網(wǎng)站及發(fā)布的正式文件。

閱讀原文，了解INTA關(guān)于人工智能的相關(guān)研究。

（原標(biāo)題：IPR Daily專訪 | INTA首席政策官Heather Steinmeyer 談人工智能【視頻】）

來源：IPRdaily中文網(wǎng)（iprdaily.cn）

編輯：IPRdaily辛夷          校對(duì)：IPRdaily縱橫君

注：原文鏈接：IPR Daily專訪｜INTA首席政策官Heather Steinmeyer 談人工智能（點(diǎn)擊標(biāo)題查看原文）

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